Masterclass review! Fully agree!

@Slainte-Mhath I'm starting to think that for me perhaps it may be the high corn mashbill that doesn't light my fire (rather than the new American oak cask limitation you have explained well) because I have found several Scotch / Irish I have liked that were matured solely in ex-Bourbon cask or used new oak casks.

@1901 I've tried quite some bourbon and rye, but I have yet to find a bottle which clearly scores 4-5 stars for me. I think this is one of the reasons why I am now exploring old grain whiskies. If you think about it, there are limitations to what you can achieve in bourbon due to new American White Oak casks. Leaving the spirit for decades in such a cask would be overkill. It works for grain whiskies, as they do not have this limitation. A decent refill cask can work miracles here.

For top notch rye look for Pikesville, JD single barrel or even Knob Creek rye is quite good. For bourbon Bookers is my fav along with OF1920, KC single barrel and of course the monster JDSBBF but that will give you some banana. Happy hunting

@Jaxz thanks for the steer. I'm on for a way to avoid banana! I have found I like the handful ryes I have tasted like Rittenhouse, Sazerac and Michters.

Try American rye whiskey they are less sweet and closer to and Irish Whiskey. Then try an wheated bourbon. The corn mash in bourbon is a minimal of 51% this gives bourbon that sweetness and I think the banana nose and flavor.

@MarkZ Weller is not available, but the other 3 are. I've had Eagle Rare 10 but it wasn't in 'ideal' conditions. I wasn't wowed but it is probably worth another go. Bottles of Blantons and Elijah Craig go for about USD140 here, so I'd try before buy on those. Thanks for the tips.

Not sure what’s available to you, but if you can get your hands on a bottle of Weller 12, Blantons, Eagle Rare (age statement preferred), or Elijah Craig (age statement preferred), I think you will finally find what you are looking for and fall in love with bourbon.orstatementpreferred)

The barrel proof is legit

@Zachary-Robbins it does seem like sacrilege I admit. I'll check out the Rye, and I have seen others ( @Ctrexman) rate the barrel proof highly.

@Milliardo all jump ins welcome! Thanks for the advice, and likewise to @Soba45. I checked online at the best shop in Dublin and none of Soba's favourites are listed and some of your suggestions were listed but marked out of stock. Part of the problem I guess. Probably samples are the way to go, so I'll look online further for them.

The banana is definitely muted compared to JD's cheaper expressions. I bet it is fantastic with Coke, but I'd be hard-pressed to dilute any $57 whiskey with Coke. A lot of people seem to like the Jack Daniel's Single Barrel Rye better, you may try to get your hands on that. Personally I'm hankering to buy the single barrel barrel proof soon.

@Soba45 I’ve been wanting to try mezcal. I dig it!

@Milliardo All good, happy for anyone to jump in on any conversation here (as I randomly do frequently) :-). Thats what I love about this forum, I never would have tried and enjoyed mezcal, pushed through to enjoying gin (finally after decades of trying) and everything in between. Would love to catch up with you and others in person for a session. Sadly I'm in the arse end of the world...NZ. I'm pretty sure I've interacted with every country bar NZ on here!

@Soba45a45 I want to drink with you. I recently said the exact same thing you just said word for word but switch bourbon and scotch. I need someone like you to help me develop my scotch palate, because I can tell the waters get deeper than I’ve been able to get exposure to. @1901 as for bourbon variety, I’d agree with @Soba45 that there very well could be (by law) a narrower range of outcomes that bourbon can accomplish, particularly compared to the broader category of American whiskey. For me the bourbon magic comes from mash bills and yeast strains. High rye, low rye, wheated, high corn, etc. Then for common flavor profiles, there’s nutty ones, fruity ones, chocolate ones, etc. I’m not sure what all you’ve tried (or have readily available for that matter), but if you wanted to get a bunch of cheaper bourbons that can show off what’s possible within the “bourbon” label constraints, go for E.H. Taylor Small Batch, Rowen’s Creek, Buffalo Trace Small Batch, Four Roses Small Batch, Wild Turkey Kentucky Spirit, and Weller. There’s a ton of variety within that bunch, by bourbon standards. In the US, those are all mid level ($25-60) and readily available, though Weller and EHT can be tricky here depending on region. There are other bourbons that have taken various profiles and ran with them, but there’s really no point in swinging too hard on a rare bottle before you have a favor profile you like. IMHO, any bourbon over 100 proof, over 10 years in a barrel, or over $100 needs to be worked up to, much for the same reason a marathon runner trains up before race day. High proof bourbons can mask the flavors with burn, and old bourbons can be tricky to get past the oak. Sorry for the unsolicited jump in! I’ll now retreat back to my 50mL liqueurs...

Sorry been drinking in vineyards all day and curently minding kids so sloppy /double note writing (I copy and paste each time i get interrupted so I don't lose notes!)

@1901 my favorites so far are Bookers 6 year True Barrel Bourban Batch 2107-01E, Pappy Van Winkle 15, Old Rip Van Winkle@1901 my favorites so far are Bookers 6 year True Barrel Bourban Batch 2107-01E, Pappy Van Winkle 15, Old Rip Van Winkle"Van Winkle Special Reserve Lot ""B' ", George T. Stag 2017 (and others), Widow Jane 10 year (cask1791) 2018. Nearly all have a stupid price premium so VFM not there. You don't have to spend as much for whiskey.

@Soba45 interesting insight about the narrow band for bourbon. You could be right. Despite that, which few stood out for you?

Yeah whilst I've drunk more scotch than bourbon or American whiskey I've definitely drunk a wide cross section in the range of 40 to 50 and I'd say there are only a few which have wowed me and even then not to the level of a good scotch. I think for bourbon it's primarily cos it generally inhabits a narrower flavour profile range than scotch. With less variation you get less chance of a confluence of random factors which sum up to be something really awesome e.g. I love a sherry and peat combo. Bourbon doesn't have peat and legally although they can use a different type of oak or even finish in a different type of cask most are conservative and don't. The American whiskies show great promise but most haven't had the benefit of a couple of decades in the making / being laid down. Also I think like you there are certain bourbon profiles I just don't like e.g. Dr Pepper / Cherry which narrows things down further. For me the preference order would be Scotch, Irish, Bourbon, American whiskies, other world whiskies, Cognac, Gin.

@1901 definitely—in that BTAC master class, you’d have some bourbons that can wow. Eagle Rare 18, George T Stagg. I’ve never had a BTAC—above my price range

@PBMichiganWolverine Good to know. I definitely need to broaden my bourbon horizons. I haven't had any Four Roses, much less any limited editions. I expect it would be hard / expensive to get here. I was kicking myself that I missed out on a Buffalo Trace Antique Collection masterclass at WhiskeyLive this year - I'm sure I'd find something to wow me there.

The only ones that wowed me were the Four Roses LESB annual releases. Have you had any of those ?